Suspension upgrade, have some questions

[Joe428]

A couple weeks ago I finished a bunch of work on my SA22C. Here is the list of what I did:

Racing Beat springs
KYB shocks (wanted Tokico but were unavailable obviously, will upgrade later)
Energy bushings all around
Removed rear sway bar
Stainless brake lines
84-85 strut housings
new rotors and wheel bearings
new front calipers (ditched wedge calipers)
Hawk HPS pads
Ball joints and tie rod ends (had alignment done)

Most of the work was fairly straight forward, just took a lot of time. For now I replaced the course flare nuts with fine and re-double flared the hard lines. Later on I'll replace the hard lines and master cylinder to have the peace of mind of factory flares.

So, I have a few questions.

What years fine-thread master cylinder will bolt up to an SA22C? I'm mostly asking about if the booster setup or anything else changed at some point which would make it incompatible. Is there anything about a rats nest removal (next project on my list) that will effect the brake booster?

I replaced the watts link bushings with polyurethane (I know, its a no no). They were rotted and a set of Energy bushings were significantly cheaper than new rods with rubber bushings. I have read that removing the rear sway bar can help with the binding which is why I removed mine during the build. Question is how much will this really effect me on a spirited daily driver on street tires? I haven't pushed the car too hard but I don't feel any strange action from the suspension yet.

After the work my car has the common rear axle un-centered issue. What specifically causes this and is is correctable? I understand that the watts isn't perfect in these cars but the concept is that it should center the axle through its range of travel. Is something installed incorrectly, is it the watts binding, is it the lower springs, is it a magical curse?

I appreciate any help and advise that anyone can give me.

[85rxCh7ven]

Hey,
I bought the energy suspension full upgrade kit for my Tri-breed creation(Chevy 350, ford rear, rest rx7). How easy did the front go together? Any pointers?

[TOOL]

It's the watts link. You need to get a shop to make the rods adjustable.
The panhard rod on the RX2 causes the same issue when you lower the car.

Rats nest is emissions gear and won't affect the brake booster.

The boosters are all the same afaik. S2 and S3 are fine thread so that's 81-85.

[Joe428]

Hey,
I bought the energy suspension full upgrade kit for my Tri-breed creation(Chevy 350, ford rear, rest rx7). How easy did the front go together? Any pointers?

The rear bushings weren't too bad to put in. I just used a rubber mallet to hit the 4-link rods until the bolt holes lined up. Took a lot of work but was straight forward. The watts isn't fun at all because of the tension on everything. I found that installing the chassis side of the rods first then manipulating the axle up and down got everything to line up on the pivot. If you're putting in a Ford rear I presume you have a better centering system than the RX7 watts link.

For the front arms I found a method that works pretty well. I jacked the car way up and put the A-arm vertical and on a block of wood. I SLOWLY lowered the car onto the arm. A rubber mallet worked for minor adjustments. Obviously keep safety stands in a place when they can catch the car but if you have a good jack you can do this fairly safely.

There are many ways to remove the old bushings. I used a torch on the metal to melt the rubber then pry them out. I then used a wire brush to remove the residue.

It's the watts link. You need to get a shop to make the rods adjustable.
The panhard rod on the RX2 causes the same issue when you lower the car.

Rats nest is emissions gear and won't affect the brake booster.

The boosters are all the same afaik. S2 and S3 are fine thread so that's 81-85.

Thank you for the brake help.

Do the 4-links need to be adjustable or the watts links? Are there any diagrams that anyone had done that show how much needs to be taken out or how much adjust-ability is needed? I'm not a suspension guy so I'm not understanding what is going on back there to well. I understand the theory but reality and theory don't work well together.

Is it the poly bushings in the watts or is it the lowering springs that are causing the offset issue? If it's the watts then will swapping to rubber watts bushings fix this?

I just picked up a LSD rear-end so hopefully I can take care of the links when I swap rears. To clarify, to swap in a 84-85 (non SE) rear I just need to swap the driveshaft right. In other words, is the transmission-end of the driveshaft and lengths the same on a SA22C and a 84-85 (non SE)?

Thank you.

[TOOL]

You want to make the watts link adjustable as this is what centres the axle and controls the lateral movement.

I have a panhard rod in my car (RX2) but the principle is the same.





I needed about 20mm movement to get mine centred again, so give your self +/- 50mm and you will have loads of adjustment. The lower you go, the more adjustment you'll need. Mines dropped about 2 inches.
Swapping the bushes won't do anything. The watts link arms are now the wrong length for the height of the car. It's basic geometry (I know, who ever thought geometry had a practical purpose lol).

Re the LSD rear, some of your terminology is a bit confusing, but I'll try to answer.
If you biought a complete rear axle for an 84-85 non SE, you have what we call a S2 rear end. Same 4x110 PCD, with solid rear disc brakes. This will bolt straight into your car. The brakes will be fine thread pitch though so you'll need an adaptor.
If you just bought an LSD diff, this will bolt straight into the SA22C rear axle. No changes required including the propshaft. The gearbox splines, length of the prop and diff flange are all the same. The driveshafts inside the axle are all 24 spline too.

TOOL

[Stacy]

Joe,

A few questions for you;

What binding are you referring to?

Why do you think poly bushing the Watts Link is a no-no?

Have the shocks and springs you fitted lowered the cars ride height front/rear?

All the best,

Stacy

[RamoNZ]

If you biought a complete rear axle for an 84-85 non SE, you have what we call a S2 rear end. Same 4x110 PCD, with solid rear disc brakes. This will bolt straight into your car. The brakes will be fine thread pitch though so you'll need an adaptor.
If you just bought an LSD diff, this will bolt straight into the SA22C rear axle. No changes required including the propshaft. The gearbox splines, length of the prop and diff flange are all the same. The driveshafts inside the axle are all 24 spline too.

This should be checked as the US cars of 12a and 84/85 vintage are not strictly 'S2' as we know them. I have seen on RX7 club them discussing the 'big bearing/axle' of the 84/85 cars being stronger than the earlier 81/83 cars irrespective of the engine fitted.

The large driveshaft flanges started in 83 and went to 85.

The only way to tell if you have an 83 GSL diff or an 84-85 GSL diff,is to check the axle splines.The 84-85 cars had bigger axles,thus more splines.The axle spline count is really the only difference between the 83 and 84-85 GSL units.

From your #s you have the GSL gear set. It's my understanding that in mid-83 when Mazda went with the larger diff flange, they also went with the larger axles. I cannot confirm that this is 100% true as I've read conflicting information such as what Steve just posted. Easiest way to tell the difference between early and late 83 diffs is the pinion flange bolts. Later 83's have bolts and nuts for the driveshft to pinion flange, early 83's have bolts only.

From http://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive- ... ls-724235/

[TOOL]

I know what I'm saying. Non SE meaning not GSL-SE, which means small axle, which means 24 spline.

Everyone got that? It makes sense in my mind.

Where's the smilie with the eyes bugging out when you need it.

[RamoNZ]

84/85 Non -SE meaning 26 spline, big axle

However reading back he did ask if it would all bolt in if he swapped the drive shaft, so in that respect I think the answer is yes, however the following would need to be considered.

Brake lines coarse vs fine
Extra width of axle - I reckon the diff housing is pure s3
Handbrake mech and cables are different I believe.
Driveshaft flange - sorted by swapping shafts.
I also think the lower links are slightly different length due to a change of the mount position on the body for S3 to improve handling over the s1/2
I'd love to have a definitive list of what is different on these S2.5's though!

[Joe428]

You want to make the watts link adjustable as this is what centres the axle and controls the lateral movement.

I have a panhard rod in my car (RX2) but the principle is the same.





I needed about 20mm movement to get mine centred again, so give your self +/- 50mm and you will have loads of adjustment. The lower you go, the more adjustment you'll need. Mines dropped about 2 inches.
Swapping the bushes won't do anything. The watts link arms are now the wrong length for the height of the car. It's basic geometry (I know, who ever thought geometry had a practical purpose lol).

Re the LSD rear, some of your terminology is a bit confusing, but I'll try to answer.
If you biought a complete rear axle for an 84-85 non SE, you have what we call a S2 rear end. Same 4x110 PCD, with solid rear disc brakes. This will bolt straight into your car. The brakes will be fine thread pitch though so you'll need an adaptor.
If you just bought an LSD diff, this will bolt straight into the SA22C rear axle. No changes required including the propshaft. The gearbox splines, length of the prop and diff flange are all the same. The driveshafts inside the axle are all 24 spline too.

TOOL

Thank you. That is exactly the information I needed. The pictures truly are worth a thousand words in this case. I have a spare set of watts links so I can get those fabricated without downing my daily driver.

My question with the driveshaft question was more about the transmission end than the axle end. I have a S1 and S2 driveshaft. I was trying to confirm that the length and transmission output splines are the same for both. I didn't want to rebuild the S2 driveshaft just to find it didn't fit my transmission. I have the park brake cables as well and have already swapped to fine threads.

Joe,

A few questions for you;

What binding are you referring to?

Why do you think poly bushing the Watts Link is a no-no?

Have the shocks and springs you fitted lowered the cars ride height front/rear?

All the best,

Stacy

I've read that the poly bushings in the watts causes binding in other posts on various forums. I haven't felt anything abnormal but I've only driven it on the street. I used Racing Beat springs and KYB shocks. The KYB shocks are basically stock valving. They are much better that the original ones that were on there but they will be relaced with Tokico ones once the supplier issues are resolved. The springs are supposed to lower the car about 1". The front seems lower but the rear looks higher in comparison. I didn't measure the car before and after so "looks" is relative.

Again, thank you everyone for the help.